Learning new skills []. Anet is going to break hell a lot more IF they're considering giving core classes their elite spec utility skills. Once you’ve unlocked Weaponmaster Training in Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure, you’ll be able to use elite specialization weapons without the corresponding trait line equipped. Only the weapon related to the weapon skill that strikes the killing blow will earn a point. The "Elementalist cannot swap weapons, only elements. Great Fortitude. GS/hammer for example. DreadfuI • Additional comment actions. Anet: Okay, lad. A condition damage take on the PvP Minion Master archetype, this build has good enough sustain for smaller skirmishes and the damage to be viable in teamfights. Other Mesmer specs still had the original, better version of Dagger 2. (One that takes so much devotion & training that they essentially forget how to equip an entire other weapon set. (from watching/listening to a Twitch stream this morning) Edited August 22 by idpersona. The weapons are too one-dimensional, competing with each other just like Warrior's especs themselves. Guild Wars 2 Weaponsmith Leveling Guide 0-400 OverviewBecoming a Weaponsmith allows the player to craft axes, daggers, greatswords, hammers, mace, shields, spears and swords and as a result, compliments many playable professions. Hammer weaver will definately become meta. A total of 20 weapon master achievements can be attained. Cantha 2022. Plug in your attack bonus and your damage, and the. Posted June 28. Major Adept. Now at 65, I tried to equip the Knight's Ogre Longsword onto it and it just does not wanna allow it. If the reflecting opponent is NOT a mesmer, the clones are uncapped, whereas a mesmer is capped at 3 clones (original attacker or reflecting opponent). Axe. Weaponmaster Training Beta Feedback: Mesmer. Dagger #2. The Weaponmaster Training beta event for Secrets of the Obscure is open to all Guild Wars 2 players from June 29 until July 2! Try out the combat changes that are coming with SotO on August 22 and let us know what you think. You can max weapons from 0-5k kills in as little as 15-20 mins, (obviously things like shield are not going to be that fast) This is in the Sylvari story "A Vision of Darkness". . Posted June 29. LucianTheAngelic. Master: Soothing Disruption: Cantrips grant you regeneration and vigor. 5. . 3Astral Ward. Weaponmaster Training. This item can only be used once. This event is to allow players to experience the combat changes coming in the MMORPG 's expansion. Thief already got shafted twice with Staff and Rifle, and you want yet ANOTHER 2 hander. Hammer holo has good potential for high damage. 4) I find it difficult to believe that somehow some Variant of "The Weapon's master class" figured out how to wield a pistol in their off-hand and devote enough time to developing a Gun-Sword fighting style. . r/Guildwars2. Weaponmaster Training: Early in the Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure story, players will gain access to ancient knowledge preserved by a weaponmaster long ago. Soulbeasts gain the ability to merge with their pet, channeling their power and the ability to use their beast skills. gain experience by doing stuff, ie killing monsters, reviving npcs etc, completing events. Axe concept art. When reflected this skill gives the clone on hit to the reflecting opponent. 4. Weapon Master is an achievement category for achievements earned by mastering the different weapons of the game. Only Necromancer is tied with it. Weapon attacks against Marked targets generate Malice, with each attack generating one Malice, or two if the attack is a critical strike. Now, all specs have to use warhorn. 1284 said:With recent Staff skins adding into the Spear appearance, I expect the Warrior to treat Staff as a Spear like weapon. Join the beta event to test out the new weaponmaster training system in Secrets of the Obscure, the upcoming expansion for Guild Wars 2. However, it does seem DPS is slightly lower for most classes compared to the last patch before SOTO. Step 1: Open your Hero panel and go to the Training tab. ☹️You need to do the first hour or so of the story unfortunately, however completing it unlocks it for all your characters. This will let the weapon be mostly the same, but feel good outside of holo. I don't expect weapon master to be removed, But Anet also got to understand there are consequences for this. Guild Wars 2 Weaponsmithing Guide. Hello guys, and welcome to a new video. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. Weaponmaster Training Beta Feedback: Mesmer. From Guild Wars 2 Wiki < Training. It's too early to say anything 2 days after the latest game update. Join. Power builds focus on stacking a variety of damage bonuses before unleashing devastating attacks. Crafting is the process of turning component items, such as crafting materials, into equipment or consumables. Spam them in whatever order you wish if they're not on CD. This package comes with a Wandering Weapon Master Outfit, Wandering Weapon Master Cape, 5 Charr Dye Kits, a Mythic Weapon Choice, and a Total Makeover Kit. The worst one is sharing pants and metal trim, so cloth and metal is mixed. It doesn't work. If this attack hits your mark, it consumes all malice and deals increased damage for each malice consumed. 1Quarry Crane. Other classes have interesting options like having support-themed weapons suddenly available on their DPS specs, or having strong DPS weapons suddenly. Deal additional damage and summon a second horror when striking foes within melee range. Most forgiving classes will probably be Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. The Photon Forge heats up with use, becoming even more. Guild Wars 2 has three independently balanced game modes: Player vs Player (PvP), World vs World (WvW), and Player vs Environment (PvE). Upon logging in now, two sets of weapons that should be equipped by the charactor are not visible as being equipped, leaving one equipment template empty though it was not prior logging in today. Utility Skills - Pulls in enemies. This, coupled with warhorn, creates a very unique, new playstyle despite using already-existing weapons. Tier 4 – Fractal Master’s Chest and all lower tiers. Mesmer. m. The elementalist can use a Scepter in their main hand, a Dagger in either, a Focus in their offhand, and needs both hands to wield a Staff. You’ll have quite a few ranged weapons at your disposal, including power-based. The Weaponmaster Training beta event for Secrets of the Obscure is open to all Guild Wars 2 players from June 29 until July 2! Try out the combat changes that are coming with SotO on August 22 and let us know what you think. They all have good dmg options and. Weaponmaster Training did the following: Decouple weapons from Elite Specs. Transcript. ½. ago. You can leave your feedback for the warrior in this thread. Cast Lesser Cleansing Fire when you have a number of conditions on you. Posted June 28. )Posted July 4. Aquamancer’s Training: Deal extra damage when your health is above the threshold. 2. Condition Auramancer. These will make a big difference! I'd gladly train you in the arts in the arts of <Weapon Type> crafting, but you'll need to show me your skill level first. When that feature arrives, each profession will have access to a new weapon, and today’s topic is the thief’s axe. Only killing blows with a weapon-specific skill count towards the achievements. Is this a bug with the new patch, or am I missing something?Holosmith is an elite specialization for the engineer unlocked with the Path of Fire expansion. Hmm maybe shield is good on vindicator and that's it, but it was super designed for herald so it doesn't really change with the weaponmastery. Get to know the warrior! A master of weapons, the blood-thirsty warrior delivers powerful attacks while supporting their allies with shouts and their unique banners. Then, progress through the expansion's story until you complete its third chapter "Mother of Stars". You have to literally deliver a killing hit with a weapon's ability. So an editor on the discord confirmed, via a friend of theirs, that the FAQ is indeed incorrect and to equip a specialization weapon, you do not need the expansion where the weapon came from. Pacific Time (UTC-7) until 10:00 p. Available for F2P players as well and is generally seen as beginner-friendly. Torch also helps Harbinger with even more condi if they want it. Each elite specialization has Specializations achievements for training it. Offer a new set of utility skills (component #2 of Elite. Warclaw Mastery 7/7 gives access to the Dismounting Lance ability which is critical for engaging fights. The jade mech's power traits turn it into a ranged attacker. This feature requires Secrets of. Posted June 28. Swiftly filling watery graves. Posted June 28. nice! 3. No excuse to not max out those weapon masteries! This is a fairly well known method, but the guides I have read do it in your own instance which massively slows it down. Sparking the Flame. Finally, the 3 skill is what ties it all together. Harpoon Master. Для the NPC, смотрите Weapon Master (NPC). you could not have EoD bought and still be able to use dagger mainhand on the mesmer, or sword offhand on the guardian. Reaper doesn't get much as all the weapons they get access to are condi weapons. Scourge getting access to Pistol will give them a good weapon to swap to while keeping up their condis. My general problem with GW2 design approach is that even if one skill in a bundle (be it a weapon, a profession mechanic, an Engineer's kit or a Revenant's legend) feels clunky to use, the whole thing feels less enjoyable to play, and almost every skill bundle in this. Posted August 23 (edited) Revenant is definitely a big winner. Masteries are abilities unlocked through the. com Warrior. Is the new weapon master training account bound or do you have to do the story on every single character ? Related Topics Guild Wars 2 MMORPG Role-playing video game MMO Gaming comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment. FR. For the Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure mechanic, see Weaponmaster Training. Weaponsmith. Everyone in this thread claiming that especs are defined by traits or mechanics and not weapons is being disingenuous: weapons--some more than others--are definitely defining features of especs as well. The Weaponmaster Training beta event for Secrets of the Obscure is open to all Guild Wars 2 players from June 29 until July 2! Try out the combat changes that are coming with SotO on August 22 and let us know what you think. ). And when I try to "re-equip" them, it won't work either. For example, the Warrior's Elite Specialization "Berserker" unlocks the use of a torch in the off-hand, but with Weapon Master training, you can equip a torch as a "Spellbreaker" or "Blade. See also . I'm not a huge fan of having weapons that are must-play for elite. advertisement. Complete the Living World Season 4 Episode 3 Chapter 2. In fact, I was using a hammer on the very same character yesterday. They use their magic to create "illusions" (usually duplicate. Rubi Bayer. Posted June 27. Show. Weapons of the engineer include Pistols, a. Posted November 7 (edited) I had weapons equipped. Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise. Vindicator is an elite specialization for the revenant unlocked with the End of Dragons expansion. It's relatively cheap and easy to obtain, as a full set of Berserker's exotic gear only costs ~35 gold on the Trading Post (~10 gold if you don't count trinkets). Elementalist builds for Guild Wars 2. Approach the master tradeskiller and select the "Please teach me to be a <Profession Name>. Overview: This is a guide for hard-core achievement grinders. Staying alive []. 21. On 6/30/2023 at 3:09 PM, scerevisiae. Getting krakatite through the reward tracks is a big waste of time, just grinding hearts in Istan is a way better way to get the ores. They let you skip the tutorial. 1. 0k more. . Guild Wars 2 End of Dragons. They’re coming in like the second update, so not until 2024 at the earliest. and main hand dagger's 50% of the it's effectiveness comes from it's burst skill and bladesworn does not. SirBlack_ • 7 yr. I'm hoping when Necro gets sword its a power. 1972 said: the biggest piece of feedback i can give is that pistol is a poor thematic fit for Elementalist. Weapon Master training allows you to equip weapons from any Elite Specialization for your class, regardless of the Elite Specialization you have chosen. Huntsman is a crafting discipline that focuses on ranged weapons such as short bows, longbows, pistols, rifles, and harpoon guns, as well as torches and warhorns. Anet: Noted. Major updates, coming out roughly once a quarter. My key farm was under 15 mins with tomes, gear, and food. Detonate your cluster bomb in midair. Weapon Master is an achievement category for achievements earned by mastering the different weapons of the game. One of the first blogpost said that with the weapon training mastery you do not need to even own relevant expacs to get the weapon from the espec. Our fury is not coming from Weapon Mastery. Master major - 5 points. Pile of Luminous Dust. This expansion will introduce Weaponmaster Training, which turns the elite specialization weapons already associated with each profession into core proficiencies. Was really hoping ranger would get off hand shield from the expac, woulda been cool to be able to run sword and board or axe shield builds. Weaponmaster Training allows players to equip weapons that were previously only usable by their profession's elite specializations, opening up many more options for your character's combat style. I can see where their vision for combat is leading too, and it's nothing good. With ele, fire 4 and 5 cant really kill, if the burn tick kills the mob. The Training tab is the third. Saryx weapons. Learn to start the process of creating a legendary weapon by unlocking access to the first tier of precursor weapon collections . These are useful to all professions, but particularly to guardians, warriors, rangers, thieves, and revenants. This is meant to be a step-by-step guide to completing the 19 weapon-specific achievements in the quickest way. The requirements on Arenanets page. It’s optimal to just do the Tier 4 Daily, because you will get all the rewards at once. Now each expansion introduced an elite specialization which allows one more weapon type the issue is you can only have 1 active elite specialization at a time, and since we had 3 expansions = 3 new usable weapon types that means you can only have 1 of the three. The expansion’s new Weaponmaster Training system is now live on the beta branch from today until July 2 nd, allowing players to put it through its paces and provide invaluable feedback ahead of the expansion. Ok, this has worked fine in the past, on any new toon. I have no desire to play this games story. Sword + Warhorn as a Non-Weaver. If you mean the new weapons per class, they’re not releasing with the launch of the expansion. 1. Weapons of the thief include Daggers, Pistols, a Sword, and a Short Bow. Pacific Time (UTC-7) until 10:00 p. (One that takes so much devotion & training that they essentially forget how to equip an entire other weapon set. They believe the best way to protect their allies is to execute their enemies, so they move swiftly, cutting down threats one by one before they have. ArenaNet Staff. Weaponsmiths also craft sigils and nourishments that can be used by any profession. Removing weapons from the espec package makes the especs easier to balance against each other, since there are less pieces strictly associated with them. Fueled by the dark magics of their creator, these amalgamations of corpses defy mortality and make a mockery of life. . #GuildWars2 #djdragonI sincerely thought it would be automaticcaly unlock upon purchasing the expansion but you have to do the storyline up to chapter 3 to u. At least I'd start using tomes to hit 10. The expansion’s new Weaponmaster Training system is now live on the beta branch from today until July 2 nd, allowing players to put it through its paces and provide invaluable feedback ahead of the expansion’s launch in August. Weaponmaster Training is an account-wide feature that provides access to elite specialization weapons for each profession without having the corresponding elite specialization equipped or trained. It was announced on March 22, 2022, and the title, features and trailer were revealed on June 27, 2023. Grab a Seraph Training Sword and hit the Sword Drill Sergeant with a sword while she's not blocking. It can even be used when leveling new. rifle/pistol = not fine. If you want to work it into your rotation, you swap to get long duration swiftness from warhorn 5 to reduce the tedium of running around the maps. Weaponsmith. 4183. 4. Gain increased ferocity while under the effects of fury. Holosmiths have learned to use zephyrite crystals to construct their Photon Forge, a device capable of turning the light of the sun into weapons of hard light to cauterize their enemies. More info ↓The List:(0:00 ) - I. " Dedicated to the art of wielding the dangerous Canthan gunsaber, Bladesworn employ the meditative Dragon Trigger technique to strike down their foes with devastating slashes and point-blank blasts. Mirage = weapons werent changed. Pacific Time (UTC-7). Crafted by. on Sunday, July 2, and it is open to everyone (that means. Druid is an elite specialization for the ranger unlocked with the Heart of Thorns expansion. The following mastery tracks are unlocked by completing goals in the Secrets of the Obscure expansion. Warrior getting dagger all over is pretty nice too. When playing as a Minion Master you can use your. I've seen. 2. Change to weaponmaster training? [Question] I played SOTO and finished it and unlocked weaponmaster training a while ago. 7. Guild Wars 2 annual achievements. — In-game description. Guardian’s main power-damage weapons will be Sword, Focus, and Greatsword, and. If you try the chat codes yourself you'll notice some of the skins have the Polearm weapon type. 2. How To Unlock Weapon Master Training in Guild Wars 2 : Secrets of The Obscure. Chunk of Pure Jade. Asra. Since the mech scales with your stats. After coming to Steam last year, Guild Wars 2 Secrets of the Obscure. Weaponmaster Training did the following: Decouple weapons from Elite Specs. Gigantic foes require gigantic weapons! Read More. Expanded weapon proficiencies are coming in 2024 during the second major update for Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure™. What you want is a leveling build that is effective with Adept and Master traits only. Longbow is really good on PVE Core Power Guardian. 1. Universal utilities would absolutely trump that. Master Fencer: Trait 6 36 10Master of Overkill []. Pacific Time (UTC-7) until 10:00 p. updated Nov 4, 2016. Skills 1-3 are ranged, 4 can be both melee and ranged. Summon a shambling horror plus additional horrors near each enemy struck. 4. The Weaponmaster Training beta event for Secrets of the Obscure is open to all Guild Wars 2 players from June 29 until July 2! Try out the combat changes that are coming with SotO on August 22 and let us know what you think. Level at your own pace while discovering the game, exploring and learning about all the mechanics that the game offers. I took off the greatsword I had equip. world. Shoot an arrow that bleeds and immobilizes your foe. It is here that all the students who come to the monastery are trained to learn about the professions. 4K subscribers Join Subscribe 641 18K views 3 weeks ago Join us on. We'd all just be taking the three most damaging skills and never see most of. Spirit Weapon Training # Unlock Unlock type Hero point cost Cumulative cost 1. For the NPC, see Weapon Master (NPC). Axe Torch is a fundamentally mismatched setup; Axe is a Power Weapon & Torch is a Condition/DoT weapon. 781. Best way to get guaranteed "kills" is with the 1HP ambients. You could, that would do it. It is the one Chronomancer build to rule them all. does anyone know a solution or why that is? thanks in advance. • 17 days ago. Landing a critical hit while under the effects of fury increases the duration of fury. This is an up to date Guild Wars 2 guide showing you the best build to use to level your Guardian from level 1 to level 80. Cleansing Wave: Remove a condition from you and your allies when attuning to water. The weapons are too one-dimensional, competing with each other just like Warrior's especs themselves. rifle/pistol = not fine. Some examples: The shield is a more of a tank, heal, support weapon. Pinnacle of Strength. Before completion: Learn to start the process of creating a legendary weapon by unlocking access to the first tier of precursor weapon collections . Specializations is an achievement category for achievements related to the training of the Path of Fire Elite specializations . Weaponmaster training flattens the plane for weapons so that there is generally a best in slot for each class based on the type of damage whether power, condi, or support. Dagger, Sword, Focus, Warhorn, Hammer, Staff: Elementalist (attunement swap multiplies skill numbers). Specter is an elite specialization for the thief unlocked with the End of Dragons expansion. Only strike damage counts anymore. I can't justify locking a feature of a class/spec that a player owns already via other expansions, but they need a whole other expansion to use what are becoming new BiS weapons for professions/specs they already have. The beta runs from. 4) I find it difficult to believe that somehow some Variant of "The Weapon's master class" figured out how to wield a pistol in their off-hand and devote enough time to developing a Gun-Sword fighting style. However, unlike most optimization options, there's a right time and a wrong time to use GWM. Practitioners of the dark arts, necromancers summon minions, wield the power of ritual, and heal themselves with blood magic. Gw2 Weapon Master Training Unveiling the Magic of Words: A Report on "Gw2 Weapon Master Training" In a global defined by information and interconnectivity, the enchanting power of words has acquired unparalleled significance. The moment Elite utility skills get the Weapon master treatment, That's. Like. 3. com Elementalist. But today, I tried to equip a better staff on him. Gallery. every single warrior weapon play the same. RELATED: Guild Wars 2: A. 75 seconds evade, but doesn't move the character and has instant activation time. A possible solution would be to move condition application from the Jagged Mind trait to the dagger itself. For the NPC, see Weapon Master (NPC). The cape. Check the Official New Player Guide from Arenanet to learn the very basics, but the purpose of this guide is to show the best methods to reach max level and. — 8, 10, or 12% heart progress. This is an up to date Guild Wars 2 guide showing you the best build to use to level your Mesmer from level 1 to level 80. Necromancer is a profession of the masters of the dark arts who absorb. — GuildWars2. Here are the weapons that will become part of each profession’s core proficiencies in Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure: Warrior: Dagger (main and off hand), pistol (off hand), torch (off hand) As a fun bonus, this means we’re also introducing a few new skills for edge cases like berserker’s Primal Burst while wielding a dagger, or the. Meanwhile, even a mage class like ele gets dual swords and range-class engineer is going to get a sword. This is meant to be a step-by-step guide to completing the 19 weapon-specific achievements in the quickest way possible. Begin training the thief's deadeye elite specialization. SB means you have access to a decent ranged weapon without having to be a renegade. We have created dedicated feedback threads for each profession: Elementalist;. Members. m. Weaponsmith is a crafting discipline that focuses on melee weapons: axes, daggers, swords, greatswords, maces, hammers, shields and spears. 2. All trademarks and copyrights on this site are owned by their respective owners. GS is a buff to all power builds because it's stronger than sword/sword and opens a lot of build flexibility. Anet is going to break hell a lot more IF they're considering giving core classes their elite spec utility skills. Shambling horrors absorb damage for their master as long as they are attacking. Each elite spec weapon only optimally works with the same related trait. 8493 said: The Weaponmaster Training beta event for Secrets of the Obscure is open to all Guild Wars 2 players from June 29 until July 2! Try out the combat changes that are coming with SotO on August 22 and let us know what you think. Might not be meta but it feels like playing Thief on Warrior. Hammer Mechanist (Engineer) I've been having a lot of trouble just getting the groove of Engineer, even when rifle 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 was the meta for almost. Part of the appeal of e-specs in the first place was the promise of a new playstyle, with weapon master training we'll all end up running the same weapon skills if they happen to be the best if we're running any instanced or competitive content besides open-world or pvp meme-builds. If the weapons are out of balance to that degree then they absolutely should. You can leave your feedback for the ranger in this thread. 8746. . This must be one of the most enjoyable playstyles unlocked by weaponmaster training. In this video, I show you wha. When you absolutely want to turn your foes into jelly, this is your weapon. 1. mainhands take. The event runs from Thursday, June 29 at 9:00 a. Sinful weapons. Minor Grandmaster. Grandmaster major - 8 points. 5. Pistol/Focus is chosen as the default as it provides quick life force generation with passable damage. Albeit lacking in defense, elementalists are very versatile and have access to a. Shattered weapons. 1List of mastery tracks. Warrior is a profession of masters of physical combat brimming with adrenaline, their. It provides alternative method of obtaining ascended gear through certain content and game modes compared to full ascended crafting. A total of 20 weapon master achievements can be attained. Buy Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure and support Hardstuck! Engineer is a medium armor profession that focuses on using kits to defeat enemies and support allies in different ways. Weaponmaster Training Beta Feedback: Necromancer. Which is why we dont get the option to skip. 4. Greatsword and spear skills recharge faster. Power Hammer Cata. The 3rd weapon skill will be the same across all elements, and you still enchant the pistol with an element, but instead of slapping the enemy, you throw it at them. But you ALSO must have spent the points for the training for the. so only leaves me with water and earth 4 skills to kill mob. Gain bonus critical-hit chance while stealthed. If that's the story then I have 100% that step, twice just this morning. It is worth retraining your ability points as soon as you reach rank 166 so that you can use it as soon as. "Concentrate and execute. The event is open to everyone, including Play. The Weaponmaster Training beta event for Secrets of the Obscure is open to all Guild Wars 2 players from June 29 until July 2! Try out the combat changes that. Everything you need to know about the Weaponmaster Training in guild wars 2! -----My Twitch: dis. m. There are nine different crafting disciplines, and initially only two can be active at a time on each character, but up to two more (for a total of 4) may be added using Additional Crafting Licenses from the Gem. For such an impactful ability, receiving it was a very unremarkable affair. ArenaNet Staff. 7054. Following yesterday’s reveal of the upcoming expansion, Guild Wars 2: Secret of the Obscure™, the team has shared detailed information about. You’ve got a lot of ground to cover, so make sure you’re prepared for anything Tyria throws your way. 3. Very high direct/burst damageIt has no utility and the damage is kitten poor. Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure brings with it two new Strike Missions: Cosmic Observatory and the Temple of. Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. In this video, I'll show you everything you need to know about the GW2 Secrets of the Obscure Weapon Master Training Feature! This new system allows you to h. You can do the personal story Stealing Light which I’ve found to be the fastest spawning of insta-kill adds. The axe is a ranged damage-dealing weapon that can be utilized by both power and condition. m. Weapons of the Necromancer include Staff, an Axe, main and offhand. Weapon Master training allows you to equip weapons from any Elite Specialization for your class, regardless of the Elite Specialization you have chosen. Login Store. The account must have Secrets of the Obscure unlocked. Jagged Mind then would possibly only buff the Bladesongs. In the end, weaponmaster training just replaced our old weapon sets with the new ones with very similar playstyles and slightly worse performances. Some such weapons are specifically designed for the elite spec's mechanics and playstyle, and thus won't fit well into others anyway, while others can be.